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I disagree with what you say, but defend your right to praise it... - The inexplicable charisma of the rival [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
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I disagree with what you say, but defend your right to praise it... [Oct. 8th, 2004|11:55 pm]
Just me.
What follows is a list of people and things that are pretty much universally reviled in the popular mind. Your challenge is to provide a cogent defense/mitigating factor as to why these things don't suck as badly as popularly perceived. Don't worry if some of these things are off your cultural radar; I have provided explanations where necessary, but believe me, if you know who #2 and #5 are, you understand why they are on this list.

1) Yoko Ono's musical career
2) Cold K (Prolific Seattle grafitti tagger)
3) The film "Ishtar"
4) Microsoft's "clippy" avatar (aka the paperclip that says "It looks like you're trying to write a resume")
5) Manny Theiner (Pittsburgh indie-rock promoter)
6) Weezer's "Pinkerton" album
7) Ticketmaster service charges
8) Hummers (the car, not the slang term)
9) Carrot Top (the "comedian", not the Indie label)
10) Roger Daltrey solo albums


[User Picture]From: spiral5
2004-10-08 08:05 pm (UTC)
I can only offer defense of #9. Carrot Top was the "surprise guest" on a commentary track of the Rules of Attraction DVD, and anything at all associated with that movie is okay by me.
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[User Picture]From: lemur68
2004-10-08 08:12 pm (UTC)
10)--They're not Pete Townshend solo albums.
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[User Picture]From: lara7
2004-10-09 11:49 am (UTC)


you win, I think.

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[User Picture]From: lara7
2004-10-09 05:26 am (UTC)


I agree in principle with "it's reasonable to get paid something for it", but in this case "something" can be up to 50% of the price of the ticket.

for a $22.50 ticket to the magnetic fields, ticketmaster wants $8.30 additional for their service ( plus a $1.50 "building facility charge. Shipping other than standard mail is extra, of course, including $2.50 to email your ticket to you and have YOU print it yourself!). Tickets bought from the box office avoid the fee. For $16.60 in "service" for 2 tickets, I expect a backrub, or my tickets hand delivered by a hot 22 year old, or something.
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[User Picture]From: lemur68
2004-10-08 08:16 pm (UTC)
Oh, and a variation on 10--how about solo albums by any member of Genesis other than Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins? (not that I like Phil Collins, but plenty of people do.)
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[User Picture]From: dougo
2004-10-09 02:31 am (UTC)
Plenty of people like Mike + The Mechanics. But not me.
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[User Picture]From: warrenjabali
2004-10-08 09:22 pm (UTC)
#1 is a hoary old mainstream-rock cliche that no one would believe if Ono hadn't married John Lennon. Have you listened to Plastic Ono Band? She's got some clunker albums, sure, but the best ones stretch out the concept of voice as an instrument on the level of masters like Patty Waters, Joan LaBarbara, etc. And it's not just conceptual, she can rock too - the first song on Plastic Ono Band sounds like the Stooges.

My band played a show a while back and the openers were college-age kids who were winning over the few people there until one of the guys in the band said "this song is about how Yoko Ono killed the Beatles and made crappy music." The crowd immediately booed. It was a beautiful thing.
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[User Picture]From: lara7
2004-10-09 05:29 am (UTC)

Have you listened to Plastic Ono Band?

Yep. I've also listed to "Fly" and 3 of 4 discs of the Ono Box. I can't say I see myself returning to these albums more than once a decade, and that's generally to see if they're as unentertaining as I remember.

I will give you that "fly" isn't a music LP as much as a conceptual art piece, but nothing on Ono box has done anything for me. And I don't care if she "broke up the Beatles" or not.
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[User Picture]From: warrenjabali
2004-10-09 06:53 am (UTC)

Re: Have you listened to Plastic Ono Band?

Cool enough. I can't argue you or anyone into liking her. But you were also asking whether her music sucks as badly as popularly perceived...well, we could argue that forever too, but I think enough people who care about and make good music (LaMonte Young, Thurston Moore, Ornette Coleman, etc) like her to at least make that public perception arguable...
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[User Picture]From: dougo
2004-10-09 02:30 am (UTC)
Who doesn't like Pinkerton? Buh?

Also, I remember liking some parts of Under a Raging Moon, but I haven't listened to it in 15+ years so I have no idea if I'd like it now.
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[User Picture]From: jodymeme
2004-10-09 06:48 am (UTC)
wow. Yoko Ono is pure genius. she has to be one of the greatest (and most misunderstood) multidisciplinary artists of her era... not only was her music unique, innovative and groundbreaking, her films and installations with Fluxus were pretty amazing, too. i have been a fan for years, and have enormous respect for her.

the stuff she did on Fly was really ahead of its time... nobody in North America or the UK were doing anything quite like it. listen to "Mindtrain" and "Aimale" and tell me who else was doing stuff like that in 1971 (except for a few German avant-garde electronic outfits). and... this will probably shock you and most other non-Ono fans, but i really like her vocal delivery, on almost every song she's ever sung. yup. 1981's Season of Glass is another favorite album of mine; it definitely rises above the pack of most mainstream new wave at that time.

i've never been much of a fan of John Lennon, i've always believed he was overrated. listening to the solo work of Ono and Paul McCartney, both of whom i feel are way more interesting and listenable than Lennon's purely solo work, it is apparent to me that his greatest talent was collaborating with people more talented than himself. he couldn't write a melody to save his life, and his 70s output wouldn't have been as interesting without Ono's input, as you can hear her influence come through much more strongly on their collaborative efforts.

anyway, i just banged this reply out quickly, i'm running off for a brunch date. i had to respond because i have some passion for her music. something related you might be interested in is this review i wrote of McCartney's new wavey album McCartney II.
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[User Picture]From: benzado
2004-10-09 11:46 am (UTC)

#4 Clippy

I heard from somebody who worked at Microsoft Research that the original "clippy" used a sophisticated Bayesian statistical model to determine how to act. When it was handed off to the developers to implement, they decided that it was "too hard" and simplified it.

So, in Clippy's defense, he was brain damaged before he ever got a chance.
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[User Picture]From: onestiffdrink
2004-10-09 03:55 pm (UTC)


El Scorcho
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[User Picture]From: herbaliser
2004-10-09 10:27 pm (UTC)
I'm shakin' at your touch
I like you way too much
My baby, I'm afraid I'm falling for you
'n I'd do 'bout anything to get the hell out alive
Or maybe I would rather settle down with you
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[User Picture]From: altamont
2004-10-10 03:26 pm (UTC)
Yoko? Hmmph.

I've never really connected with her particular brand of avant/prog, but

1) she's always unfairly borne the brunt of blame for matters unrelated to her work as a plastic or performing artist, inter alia (geez did I just say that?) the disappearance of "Beatle John". In that respect, I think JL's initial attraction and post May Pang domestic devotion was in some way a breakout from the world's level of expectations into a more independent sense of self. She represented the sophmore year of college girlfriend to whom your loyalty was only reinforced by the fact that none of your friends or family could stand her. For all that, the two worked it out as a genuine couple. Kudos for that, I say.

2) "Season of Glass" may not be one of the greatest albums ever, but it does have one of the greatest album covers ever. Spooky, beautiful in its own way, and just skirting the edge of exploitation. All good Rock n Roll values.

3) Elvis Costello chose to cover one of her songs. Not his best effort, but credible nevertheless. The rest of the tribute album on which it was included varied wildly in quality, but there was at least enough there to fill out two sides of an LP.

4) Huge generalization here, but most (certainly not all) visual artists moonlighting as avant musos tend to the tedious. By the standard of that lot, she's way ahead of the pack.

Can I stop now? My jaw hurts.
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[User Picture]From: holyoutlaw
2004-10-11 07:41 pm (UTC)
Clippy gives you a wrong answer much faster than the old help systems did.
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